200 Episodes Strong: Backlash Recap & Controversies Uncovered

On the 200th episode of Wrestling Crossroads, Twisted (under the weather) and Desario review Backlash, praising the increased match time and video packages that improved the show’s pacing and emotion. They break down Seth Rollins vs Bron Breakker, including The Vision’s involvement and Breakker’s clean win, and discuss potential plans for Austin Theory and Maxxine Dupri. They cover Trick Williams retaining the United States Championship over Sami Zayn (with Lil Yachty at ringside), and speculate on Sami’s direction after another loss. They highlight the comedic Danhausen/mini-Hausen tag match as a standout, the duo also review IYO SKY vs Asuka and Asuka’s emotional farewell, criticize John Cena’s vague “John Cena Classic” concept, and close with Roman Reigns vs Jacob Fatu, noting Fatu’s dominance and continued Bloodline destruction on Raw.

Transcript

Welcome and Milestone

Backlash first impressions

Rollins vs Breakker Breakdown

US title Trick vs Sami

Danhausen Tag chaos

Miz & Kit future team

IYO vs Asuka Technical

John Cena Classic explained

Fan vote concerns

Oba Femi Hype Train

Open challenge fatigue

Roman vs Jacob breakdown

Future booking predictions

0:00

Then can you dig it? Woo! Acknowledge me. The king of kings. Best in the world. Forever. What is up, guys? Welcome back to Wrestling Crossroads. As always, I am one half of Dynamic Duo Twisted, here with DeSario. Hello again, folks. So nice you had to have me twice. Definitely, and I believe we get you a third time this month as well. Yes, at, for the, uh, All In pay-per-view. I thought it was Double or Nothing. Oh, Double or Nothing. AEW, I get their pay-per-views out of order from time to time. Hey, you know what? I barely pay attention to AEW half the time. But we brought it back'cause the fans loved it. Yes. Um, as you can hear, I am a bit under the weather, so DeSario will be the main voice you are hearing today. I will be here, but popping in here and there. I suffered a cold right before we had to record, unfortunately. But before getting into the pay-per-view, I want to say DeSario is here as a part of history. Today marks 200 episodes of Wrestling Crossroads. Huzzah. I can't believe we've made it that far. I know. It is a testament to, you know, the knowledge, the people listening out there. Really, really great to sit there and get to 200, and here's to 200 more. Yes, definitely. Uh, do you wanna start us off? Absolutely. So, uh, Backlash, what a show actually. What a nice departure from what WrestleMania had and all the bad feelings we had going into Backlash. Definitely. Um, I would... You know, the wrestling that was on Backlash, we had it, like, they timed it out, like, one hour and 24 minutes, which was a little bit more than what you got, you know, proportion-wise, for both WrestleMania nights, so- Mm-hmm TKO, maybe not TKO, WWE started listening to the fans a little bit on that. We got video packages before every single match, which was something we touched on on the pre-show. Yes. Um, we needed those things to really drive the emotion and really up the, you know, ante of wanting to see what these matches are gonna be like- Mm-hmm with the video packages. Go figure. As we were discussing. So overall, I thought this was a really, really beautiful show. Um, were there a couple of hiccups? Of course. You're not gonna have perfect everything. No, no. But it, it was really, really well done, especially with that first match, but go on. I think they listened to you on the pre-show when you came out about talking about the video packages. Honestly, I swear they heard you. I, I, I hope to God they did, and hey, if you guys need a mind in creative, I'll help you out. Oh, you'd be the one that I would just, like,"Here. Have him." Yes."Please." I can come up with so much stuff for you guys right now, but that's okay. I digress. Um- We, we get to have you here. That's true. So this works. That, that's true. You know, I got a job already, TKO. Sorry. I've gotta back off. So moving into the p- show, what do we start off with? We start off with a banger. Personal feud, heavy-hitting, Seth Freakin' Rollins, badass Bron Breakker, and right from the jump, these men went right at it. They did. You got them battling out onto the floor, superkicks, high spots. I mean, especially the one spot where Bron hit that flying clothesline onto Seth onto the announce table, and they both tumbled. Wow, the physicality, you could just feel it through the screen. Oh, yeah, definitely. And the commentators did say that- That seems to be one of Bron's new signature moves now, is to always end up with his opponent over the announce table, or at least through it at this point. I've noticed that too, and you know what? Good little signature spot for him then, because then you got something to look forward to during our, all of his matches. Definitely. Um, calling back to something you called in the pre-show, The Vision coming out to help out Mr. Bron Breakker, but Seth Rollins, he was too smart. He knew something was up. Mm-hmm. Once he saw Heyman get up on that apron, what does the man do?"Oh, I'ma I'm grabbing myself a chair.""I'm just gonna wait it out.""Come on, boys. Let's have some fun." And swinging to the fences, did he. Oh my God. I thought for sure he killed Austin Theory, especially with the stomp. Um, hands up. I mean... And let's give a little appreciation to Mr. Austin Theory on that one. We know the guy can sell, especially when he had that stunner that- Oh my goodness he sold by Austin a few years ago. The stomp that he took, the way he looked like he did die, beautiful sell. He, if they could book him correctly like they're slowly starting to, like Pyro has said, he could be a main event guy, honestly. He sells so beautifully, and his in-ring work is top tier. It is. I mean, he unfortunately suffered from being pushed too soon under the Vince regime, and I think that stink is now finally starting to wear itself off. Mm-hmm. He's just needing that repackaging, and he's getting there. He's slowly getting there. Yes. Let's see what happens when they finally break him and Logan apart from the tag team so he can get some singles action. Yes. So, but going into some of the closing moments of the match, um, I didn't really like the spear into the pedigree spots that they kept doing in the match. That looked a little clunky. It was. It was very clunky. Uh, so but, you know, Seth likes to break that out whenever people like doing spears, so have at it. Let him have his spot. But, um, going into the finish, Bron on his own, no shenanigans, one, two, three on Seth Rollins. That was perfect. You sit there and display the, why Bron Breakker is in this position. You're elevating him, and you... Seth Rollins is the perfect guy to sit there and help get him to where he needs to go. Oh, definitely. Um, I did wanna point out that- Um, talking about Austin Theory being elevated with this, if you watched Monday Night Raw, there was a bit of a segment where we got to see Maxxine Dupri in Austin Theory's car. What do you think could be happening there? We've been seeing little Easter eggs of this on Raw over the last several weeks, whether Austin is, like, talking to her on the floor, walking all the way into backstage with her, and now with her being in the car. Honestly, I think this might be a pretty good thing for both Austin and Maxxine'cause Maxxine, she had that push to the Intercontinental title, but she hasn't been doing anything since. Mm-hmm. And she's hanging out with Alpha Academy, which with all due respect to Otis and Tozawa, they're not gonna really be going anywhere. No, unfortunately. And, and Maxxine has got enough talent and is young enough to sit there and show what she can bring. Why not add her into The Vision? Why not add her with Austin Theory? That could create a new little power couple in there that, while it may not rival Dom and Liv right now, has the potential to have some legs to go with it. Definitely. Um, could you see some action against them and Liv and Dom? But then who do you turn face in that scenario? I mean, I know you'd turn Dom, but does Liv's character really present herself as a face in this situation? Not really, but I know that they've talked about possibly turning Liv face here and there. True. I mean, she is popular enough with a certain segment of the audience. Not me. I don't like her cringe voice right now, but- No. No, Lord, I don't either uh, but you know, you gotta have something. She wasn't really doing too much with her face character, so this character is something that she can sink her teeth into. I get it. I may not like it, but I get it. But do you think that they could eventually be on the same level as Dom and Liv? I think so. Get the right packaging, and especially with Paul Heyman as the manager right now, he can really help sell that image. Okay. All right. Jumping into our next match, we have the United States Championship, Trick Williams accompanied by Lil Yachty takes on Sami Zayn. And you know what? Thank God we did not get the gingerbread man in this one. Oh, my Lord. Even though the funeral segment the night before, I heard a lot of people saying,"You want Attitude Era? This is an Attitude Era segment." I lived through the Attitude Era. No, this was not an Attitude Era segment. I'm sorry. This was Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, um, meets meth, is basically what it is. That's, that's what that segment was. Oh, Lord. Okay. Espe- especially with, uh, you know, rapping a eulogy for a gingerbread man. You know what? I'm kind of glad that I missed that part of SmackDown then. Yep.'Cause I would've probably died with the cringe that that was. Yeah. So luckily we didn't have that, but we still had the candy cane pole that came out during the match. And you know, as much as I like this match better than their WrestleMania match- You could have maybe added a stipulation here. You could have very easily said this was, like, either a street fight or a no DQ match considering how much they're putting into it. Especially with some spots, questionable that you coulda had people getting disqualified, but the ref was just like,"No, we're not doing that." Like, especially when Sami DDT'd Trick onto the stairs. Uh, yeah, definitely. Um, for me, as we've talked about before this, this match just was very clunky to me. It didn't... It was kind of equal, but a little bit better than the WrestleMania match. Um, Sami immediately started on the attack when it came to Trick. There was a moment, like you had mentioned, with the DDT onto the stairs outside. There was another moment where Zayn hit Trick with the kendo stick- Mm-hmm that was brought out. Um, in the closing moments, uh, Zayn did attack Lil Yachty with the kendo stick and a Helluva Kick. And then Zayn missed a Helluva Kick onto Williams, countered, Trick shot. Trick retains. Uh, yes. Now, let's go back to Lil Yachty getting beat up. If he's gonna be at ringside and he's gonna be taking action, can, for the love of God, the man learn how to sell something? I agree. I mean, look. I mean, it- that part looked bad, where Sami looked like he swung three times and he was like, ugh, crumbled like jelly. It's like, what, what's going on? I did notice that, um, on the SmackDown beforehand, that the crowd kept chanting when Lash was out,"Whoop that Trick." So obviously the crowd did see her, um, Instagram photos. Congratulations yet again to them for their engagement- Mm-hmm and soon to be marriage. Um, but where do you see Trick going from here? Uh, well, he's got a slew of challengers for that United States title over on SmackDown. Obviously the thing with Sami is done with for right now. Let's hope. Uh, let's hope. Um, Trick has already t- they've already teased Carmelo versus Trick in a backstage segment before WrestleMania. Mm-hmm. You also still have Ilja Dragunov that's still in the, on the SmackDown roster, and you know that man can go, especially for the US title. You have so many options of where... It is a wide canvas. Trick, with his character, can kinda go anywhere he wants right now. Uh- Let's hope with Ilja, unless, you know, TKO decides to throw him under a luchador mask. Yeah. Brother Pyro did talk about that. He did talk about that. And well, considering that they've now thrown the Creeds under lucha masks now, I mean, it's- You know, I, I can't say much about what's going on with that. Mm-mm. I can't wait for this Triple A mask versus mask to happen just so we can hopefully end this. I, I agree. I agree. Now, there's another angle too that we gotta figure out about what's going on after this match. What's gonna happen with Sami? Uh, Sami turns heel officially. Well, it's gonna be interesting to see how WWE plays this one, because Sami- Technically hasn't turned heel. He's kind of doing like the old Bret Hart thing,"Hey, I'm doing this for my fans. If you guys are booing me, so be it, but I don't get why you guys are turning on me." So it's gonna be interesting to see how they're gonna play this somewhat semi-heel, down- downtrodden Sami Zayn after failing twice in a row now. What would you say would be best for him? Go away for a little bit. Okay. Go away for a couple of months, get a little bit of a character refresh, and then when he comes back, kind of a similar vein of, uh,"Hey, I've always been behind you guys. You guys have turned on me, so to hell with you. I'm doing this on my own." Okay. That could be a little bit of a nice refresher that we get. All right. And into our next match. Into our next match is the, uh... Well- It's, this is a hard one to explain. This is one of those things- where if you were to describe wrestling to a non-wrestling fan and you tried to describe this match, they would think you were crazy. They would, they would think you were mad. Yes. They would. They- We have Kit Wilson and The Miz taking on Danhausen and a mystery opponent. As seen on SmackDown, Danhausen was trying to use his cloning machine to sit there and make the perfect tag team partner. Himself. Himself. So as he opens the door, he looks straight over, but then he has to look down and there's a mini-Hausen. And in true Danhausen fashion, he's like,"Ah, shit. Oh, well. Let's go." And for- He gets the car. Yep. And then for the next about 12 minutes, we get some- of the most insane but entertaining wrestling we have seen in a very long time. Yeah. This match captivated you from beginning to end for many different reasons. I think the last time we saw as entertaining of a match as this, and correct me if I'm wrong, was a couple WrestleManias back, and that was Sami Zayn at, at the time, um, babyface, versus Johnny Knoxville. Mm-hmm. I think he wa- No, he was heel. He was heel. He was still in a little bit of conspiracy theory, uh, Sami at that point. Yes. So conspiracy theory Sami against Johnny Knoxville was the last time we saw a very entertaining match- I agree. This, this- of this caliber. Yeah, this was, this was great from b- bell to bell. You have the high-flying of mini-Danhausen, which for some of you WWE fans who may not know who that is, that was El Torito from back in the day. And so if you recognize a little bit of the moon set, move set, you knew that this guy was gonna be able to go. Then you have the veteran The Miz, who just makes anything work. Pyro has said it. He can work with a broom. He can. And what better way, I mean, technically, he doesn't wanna be a mentor to Danhausen. Technically, he's being a mentor to Danhausen with these matches and how to work all these things. Yeah. And then Kit Wilson finally getting on a PLE by himself with this character. Yeah. And he plays his role perfectly. Um, I al- I love the spot where mini-Hausen tried to curse Kit Wilson, and Kit throws the mirror up. Yes. Yes. That was beautiful, and it was just like, oh, that is great. I love seeing that. Did you also notice, um, that mini-Hausen used Wasteland, which was- uh, Wade Barrett's move- and he actually called him out for it. Yeah, I, yeah, W- Wade Barrett was like,"Don't steal my move." And then what, uh, Michael Cole's on commentary with him,"Don't say that, you'll get cursed." I don't wanna get cursed. It'd be all on you at this point. Yeah, see, whereas, whereas last week we talked about the, you know, gingerbread man, how they were playing it way too seriously, they don't play Danhausen seriously at all- No to go into the goofiness, which is what makes it so entertaining. Oh, yeah, definitely. Uh, then also the part where Kit chases little mini-Hausen down the ramp, shuts the door, and then out comes many mini-Hausens. Oh, my Lord. Ugh. I, I had to look away from the TV at that point because- I'm just like,"My three-year-old could do this better." But the way that they were attacking him, I'm watching them and all their arms are just little flailing like- they're, like they're babies, and I'm like,"My son could do so much better." Oh, my God, Baby Crossroads knows how to use some certain moves and actually executes them perfectly. So to watch that and just see their little arms flail, I was like,"Aw, can I just throw my three-year-old on the screen?" Honest to God. Yeah. I mean, this, this was great. Now, to the surprise of absolutely no one, you know, Danhausen picks up the win, picks up the victory, everything is great, but one thing I do wanna see coming out of this whole thing- Mm-hmm Kit and Miz worked so well as a team. They did. I could... And with Elton being on the shelf, this could be a really good time for them to be a tag team on SmackDown and kind of go after the belts. I mean, right now they're being held by Damian Priest and R-Truth. Miz has got history with both of those guys- Yeah especially Truth. It makes a perfect storyline to p- actually get a belt back on them, and also reward Kit for his character work that he's got going on. I, I do agree. I, I'd love to see it. Maybe they do one of my favorite things and set up a little bit of a tournament, a gauntlet match. I, I love to see the tag team tournaments, honestly- Yeah or a, like a tag team gauntlet. The last time we saw a really good gauntlet was getting ready for KofiMania. Yes. And the Usos were like,"Yeah, you know, we could fight you," but deuces,"Have fun, Kofi." Yes. And just kinda left them to it. Now unfortunately none of the New Day is, aside from Big E on commentary, is with the WWE, but- Yeah I digress. That- The least, least said about that, the better unfortunately. Yeah. All right. Jumping into our next match, we have IYO SKY versus her mentor, Asuka. Um, this was back and forth right off the bat. Um, there was a moment about halfway through the match that was pretty memorable. They were on the outside on the announce desk, and Asuka went to go and use the mist. Well, IYO said,"I've been misted way too many times. I'm gonna pick up a notebook and you're gonna mist this." Mm-hmm. Um, that ended up with a crossbody off the announce table by SKY. They get back into the ring, they're fighting back and forth. Honestly, beautiful technical match between the two. Asuka locks in the Asuka Lock- Um, IYO is able to reverse it, and then also attempts to lock in the Asuka Lock herself. Yes. With that being said, in just that general aspect, do you see this becoming something that IYO could use? Especially post-match and something that happened on Raw, I could easily see it as being, like, a tribute thing. Okay. Um, with that finishing up, Over the Moonsault from Sky, uh, which Asuka successfully attem- uh, blocked. So sorry. Um, Asuka tried to lock in Asuka Lock yet another time. We got the Over the Moonsault after a train attack, and picking up the win was IYO Sky. They both hugged to end up the match. Yep. And, you know, Asuka crying, waving goodbye to the crowd. I mean, it doesn't feel like a retirement, but it's more of a goodbye for now type- Yes moment that we got going on. I know a lot of things were saying that she's just taking some time off TV. Um, you know, when you look at everything that IYO's been put through, this has to really hurt her. Oh, I know. She just lost Rhea to go to SmackDown. She just lost Kairi. Now Asuka's either potentially leaving, leaving, or she's just taking some extended time off. Mm-hmm. And we have no clue where the future holds for her. And dig a little bit further back as well, because not even a year ago they also released Dakota Kai- Yep who was another one of her good friends on there. So over the last year it's just been loss after loss of either- Mm-hmm friendships or partners from the company or whatnot. So you could easily play that into a good story with, uh, uh, IYO right now. Yeah, definitely. Um, where do you see IYO going from here? I know we saw her on Monday Night. We s- yep. And you know what? Since Soul is also in that program with Becky, and we saw Becky and IYO a couple of weeks ago, I can see a little bit of intermingling for that Intercontinental title belt. Okay. Would you say that maybe a position at the next pay-per-view comes up? I don't know position at the next pay-per-view, because right now for the, um, Clash in Italy, we're already looking at at least two matches that are gonna be on there. We know Cody and Gunther, and we're pretty sure it's gonna be Jacob and Roman in there. Yeah. You're, you are gonna need a, you know, female match in there. Who knows what they're doing with Rhea on SmackDown, because they've got a lot of things going, and it just might make sense to put Rhea in that position. Okay. Don't wanna leave the, uh, one of the women's titles off the main show a couple of weeks in a row. Yeah. But then that's also same thing with Liv. What do you do with her? So. Yeah, honestly. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if IYO gets onto the next PLE, but if they build it r- which they will- Or even just a singles match for her, and maybe just another rematch with Becky, another rematch with Soul, somebody else new that starts a feud. You know, could be an interesting one, would be Lyra versus, uh, IYO. Really? That could be a really good singles match right there, depending on what happens with the whole tag team women's division, because right now her and Bayley feel like they're just spinning wheels at this point. Yeah, I agree. So moving into the next- segment on this show, and this is something that I'm a little confused about and I have questions. I do, too, and I, I know we were texting back and forth about it. Yeah, so John Cena comes out to make this groundbreaking announcement that is going to affect everybody in the WWE. And it does. It really does. He wants to create a night of matches between current superstars on the main roster and NXT and call it the John Cena Classic. Now, very specifically, he did not use the word tournament. Mm-hmm. So there's no bracket style going on here. There's no gonna be, if you win this match, you take on this person. So it sounds like it's gonna be kind of like a Saturday Night's Main Event-type thing where they, with Cena's last one, where you had that- Yeah hierarchy going. But then he said the champion that gets crowned may be a person that loses. What? Yeah, no, uh, he says that the, the fans are going to be the biggest ones voting for this, and that it could be somebody that has earned their respect, has their loyalty. So they could have lost in the beginning match and then here they are being crowned at the end of everything. Yeah. Um, I'm sorry. Usually, championships go to people that win things- Exactly not lose in matches. Mm-hmm. At that point, you might as well strap the championship on Otis or Tozawa. Mm-hmm. I know. It, it just makes no sense what we're doing here because now you're readily admitting that wrestling is predetermined with who's w- winning or losing. You're suspending that, uh, bra- you know, disbelief going on right there. Yeah. And Lance Storm, former wrestler Lance Storm- Mm-hmm had a great comment recently where he said,"If I'm a wrestler on the main roster making$500,000 and I'm going against an NXT guy that's making$75,000, what is my interest in making this person look good? Because he could take my job. The fans could vote him as the title winner, and TK will be like,'Well, this guy lost the fan vote, so why are we even paying him?'" It- Right it does not benefit the main roster to make NXT look good in any way, shape, or form on this. Plus, can you really name at least five men, outside of maybe Tony D'Angelo, C, that deserves a spot on the main roster pay-per-view at this point? I mean, personally, the only other one that I can think of,'cause they ha- aside from ones that have just been called up, is, and I'm gonna f- I'm gonna forget his name because I'm not 100% good with names, but he's currently the leader of the Vanity Project. Okay. Uh, seeing him as champion, seeing what the Vanity Project has done, I could see him really putting on a really good showing. Okay, fair. Or honestly any member of the Vanity Project. They've done really well in the times that I've watched them- Mm-hmm and seen them come up from, uh, I believe it was Evolve. They've been great. Yeah. So- And maybe the- I, I could see any of them. Yeah, and maybe the only other guy from NXT, Myles, uh, Myles. Okay. That's the only other one, but outside of that, you really don't have too much to work with from NXT. No, I mean, if you gave a little more TV time to, like, Shiloh or, um- The other, Octavian, maybe, yeah, they could get there, but Justina dropped a big name. Yeah. A couple time he was talking about this, and that name being Oba Femi. Yeah. You are not going to be able to compare anybody in the NXT current locker room to Oba Femi. No. To the aura that that man gives off, to anything that that man does and has done. He retired Brock Lesnar. No one can step to his level. Mm-mm. And no one from NXT, so you're comparing these guys in NXT to pretty much a god- Yeah at this point. There, there's no comparison. No, and nobody even close to being on Oba's level- No in NXT, and I don't see that happening- for a few years, because you just don't have that. I mean, when Oba burst on, he won that NXT Breakout Star champ- uh, championship- Yes thing, and became the North American Champion. You knew once he won that, uh, Breakout thing that he was gonna be off to the races. He had the look. He had, he had not developed the character, but you knew something was there. Yes, definitely. He had a, he had a look. And he waited. He waited. It was... You could... Once again, you can tell these guys. Mm-hmm. You can't force it. Look what happens when you force it. Look what happened to Roman when they tried to force him. True. So, I don't know how well this tournament is gonna go, but I'll be cautiously optimistic. But knowing that it's WWE and JKO, I'm gonna definitely be very pessimistic on the results. Oh, definitely. Um, I did wanna point out,'cause we were talking about Oba, something I had seen stat-wise is, um, before NXT Oba was 0 and 5 in matches. Did you know that? No, I did not know that. He had not won a single match before NXT. I think it was NXT LFG he was on. Okay. Um, he had not won a single match. I think it was Level Up. Level Up, that was it. Yeah. Not a single match. Odd. Right? May- maybe they should find those four, five people at, you know, and put'em in the match- of the Oba Femi challenge right now. No, literally.'Cause, I mean, that's... I, I don't know where they're going with it. Yeah. The Oba Femi challenge. I, I see it going downhill very quickly. This, this has become a lazy trope that WWE been doing over the last year, where they're, to try to get somebody on TV they're doing an open challenge. Mm-hmm. Why, whether it's the United States Open Challenge, whether now it's the Oba Femi Challenge. Okay, I like the United States Open Challenge. I do for the most part, but after, but once- When executed correctly when executed correctly. But the way they were doing it last year with Carmelo, it worked out really well. Yes. Ilya, not so much. It was the same people. Sami, not so much. That's'cause of Sami. I mean, like I said, they use... So, that's three different people they used it on, only one of'em worked. Mm-hmm. So I mean, let's try to get away from this open challenge thing. Yeah. Maybe cool it and only do it when the time is right. I agree. So, but moving on into the- Prestigious main event of Backlash. Yes. You have the Samoan Werewolf, Jacob Fatu, who needs this title. Mm-hmm. Doesn't want it, he needs it for his family- Yes taking on The Tribal Chief, the OTC, Roman Reigns. And, uh, these guys did not play. No. These guys went all out after each other. They are just breaking things. They, the Tongan Death Grip got used several times on Roman. Oh, definitely. And, you know, Roman clearly looked outmatched from bell to bell. Yeah. You do not see Roman in that compromised of a situation ever. Even back to when he was just struggling babyface, he was never like that. There were a couple times and a couple people that had him like that. I, Brock Lesnar was one of'em, definitely. True, but he did always fight back, especially with the Superman punch. Mm-hmm. Uh, especially, and I think it was the first Mania match they went up against each other. Yeah. That's when Brock started slowly having that creak of,"Oh, Roman is on my level, great." Yeah. And with Jacob, any Superman punch, he's just kind of standing there like,"Let's try again." Mm. Uh, they, I had no reaction to this, man. Well, that's goes back to the Samoan mythology. If you hit'em in the head, it doesn't really do anything to'em'cause they got, you know, very thick skulls. Not saying anything wrong one way or another about it, just their biology. I mean, if you listen to the lore enough, yeah. Yeah, just their biology. Uh, but man, this was as intense of a match for a first title defense for Roman and the World Heavyweight Champion that we could have hoped for. Yes. And, you know, going towards the maybe the later stages of the match too, you saw Roman get desperate to the point where he felt the match slipping away, and he grabs that turnbuckle. Grabs the turnbuckle, pulled the ref in so many times. And I, I gotta say, one of the biggest downfalls for Jacob, and I talked to you before getting on here about it, the commentators pointed out, he plays to the fans too much. He doesn't know when to turn the attention at the appropriate time. I, yes, I agree with that. Um, but again, he's still learning this new role that he's got going on with him. And also, he hasn't really been in the main event yet. This is his real first big main event push he's getting. Oh, yeah. And so it takes time to learn some of those little things on when to turn it on and when to turn it off. Mm-hmm. Um, it's kinda like with, um, to... I know this might not be a greatest comparison, but it's a current comparison. Lola Vice down in NXT. Okay. Prior to getting the title, I always said that I like her, but there's something about her that was holding me back as a fan. And then I, it dawned on me watching a Triple A show, I'm like,"If she would just stop taunting, like, 30% less- Yeah then I would be a little bit more incredible'cause she's got the backing. She's everything you need, believe in her as a champion or threat, but it was just the incessant, you know, taunting that she was doing. Yes. So Jacob may have a little bit of a similar thing going on right now. Maybe just tone it down 30% and then we can kinda go from there. Yeah. I mean, like, find the right time to do it. I, I've seen it too with Lola. She taunts a lot. The only time that I can see the taunting being 100% necessary is when she's in her Underground matches,'cause that woman is- Undefeated Mm-hmm She has done amazing in Underground. Oh, absolutely. And- If slash when they bring her up to, uh, the main roster, they gotta give her an Underground match on, on the main roster against someone. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Can you imagine one against Natalya? Oh my God, yeah. That would be so good. But overall, this was a great match. You saw Jacob break him down mentally and physically. Roman won the match, but he did not win the battle in this one. No. And as seen on Monday Night Raw, this is only just the beginning. Yeah. Jacob came out and destroyed the entire Bloodline on Monday Night Raw. There was no question about who the true Samoan, you know, champion should be going forward. Mm-hmm. Now, is he gonna be the face of the company? Maybe not face of the company, but he could be the champion. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you look at post-match, he left Roman pretty much foaming at the mouth at the very end. They needed to pull him off several times. You look at Monday night, he took out both Usos, as you said, The Bloodline, took out Roman, had Roman dead to rights pretty much at the very end. Mm-hmm. And let's talk right before Backlash, where he took out all of MFT. It- you can't just look at a man that does that and go,"Yeah, you know, uh, I don't think you're ready to be it." No. I, I... Honestly, you said it before, we go to the next pay-per-view, Last Man Standing match. Don't necessarily put a title on it, I don't think. Mm-hmm. Save that till Summer Slam. And you know, that could be the perfect vehicle to write Roman off, since he's already been de-booked for June, and they're gonna be doing this in only three weeks. Mm-hmm. This takes him off TV for that whole time, if you do something like that. Yeah. Yeah, definitely, like, have Jacob put him dead to rights again. Mm-hmm. Take him off for the month. Have him whatever he apparently needs to do that was already set and booked. Bring him back in August, and either pump the brakes a little bit on it, have Jacob watching in the background, then you set this up for Rumble or even Mania next year, but Jacob needs to be the one that dethrones Roman in the end. Yeah. But then where do we go from post-comments of Mania, where Oba's made it very clear that he wants Roman at some point, and Roman even saying,"Hey, Oba, bring it." Do, do like they did with Brock. You don't need a title on the line for Roman-Oba. You really don't. Fair. He just wants Roman to state that he's the new Big Dog, and he's the new one that can rule. What do you do when you're a ruler? You take out everyone who's ever ruled before you. He did it with Brock. He's gonna do it with Roman. And I think that that could be the way you retire Roman as well. Fair. As sad as it is, that's the way you retire Roman. And then you essentially move Oba into this Brock Lesnar, Roman-esque type role where the minute he gets the hands on the title, that's not leaving for at least another three, four years from his waist. True. And that's what you have to do, but you do it with consistent title defenses I agree. I can see, I, I definitely can see that. It's gonna be fun to watch no matter what happens with this whole thing. It will be- I'm excited as long as they book it correctly. Knock on wood. Mm-hmm. Let's, let's take, let's keep the AI out of this, folks. Oh, please, Lord. All right. Well, with that being said, that is, uh, the conclusion to Backlash. I believe we come back for Double or Nothing. Is that the next one? I belie- Or is it Clash in Italy is next? So Clash in Italy's in three weeks, so, uh- Oh, yeah no, Double or Nothing's first. All right, so we will see you back here for that. Yes. Uh, thank you again for being here for episode 200. Sweet. Um, kinda sad that Brother Pyro can't be here for this, but he is with his lovely girlfriend. Um, and we hope you guys enjoyed the show. Later.